Journals of the Senate
59 Elizabeth II, A.D. 2010, Canada
Journals of the Senate
3rd Session, 40th Parliament
Issue 72
Wednesday, December 1, 2010
1:30 p.m.
The Honourable Noël A. Kinsella, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Angus, Ataullahjan, Banks, Boisvenu, Braley, Brazeau, Brown, Callbeck, Carignan, Carstairs, Champagne, Chaput, Charette-Poulin, Cochrane, Comeau, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, Di Nino, Dickson, Downe, Eaton, Eggleton, Fairbairn, Fortin-Duplessis, Fox, Fraser, Frum, Furey, Greene, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kenny, Kinsella, Kochhar, Lang, Lapointe, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, MacDonald, Mahovlich, Manning, Marshall, Martin, Massicotte, McCoy, Meighen, Mercer, Merchant, Mitchell, Mockler, Moore, Munson, Murray, Nancy Ruth, Neufeld, Ogilvie, Oliver, Patterson, Pépin, Peterson, Plett, Poy, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Rompkey, Runciman, Segal, Seidman, Smith, Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Wallace, Wallin, Watt, Zimmer
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Angus, Ataullahjan, Banks, Boisvenu, Braley, Brazeau, Brown, Callbeck, Carignan, Carstairs, Champagne, Chaput, Charette-Poulin, Cochrane, Comeau, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, *De Bané, Di Nino, Dickson, Downe, *Dyck, Eaton, Eggleton, Fairbairn, Fortin-Duplessis, Fox, Fraser, Frum, Furey, Greene, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, Hubley, Jaffer, Joyal, Kenny, Kinsella, Kochhar, Lang, Lapointe, LeBreton, Losier-Cool, *Lovelace Nicholas, MacDonald, Mahovlich, Manning, Marshall, Martin, Massicotte, McCoy, Meighen, Mercer, Merchant, Mitchell, Mockler, Moore, Munson, Murray, Nancy Ruth, Neufeld, Ogilvie, Oliver, Patterson, Pépin, Peterson, Plett, *Poirier, Poy, *Raine, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Rompkey, Runciman, Segal, Seidman, *Sibbeston, Smith, *Stewart Olsen, Stratton, Tardif, Tkachuk, Wallace, Wallin, Watt, Zimmer
The first list records senators present in the Senate Chamber during the course of the sitting.
An asterisk in the second list indicates a senator who, while not present during the sitting, was in attendance to business, as defined in subsections 8(2) and (3) of the Senators Attendance Policy.
PRAYERS
The Senate observed a minute of silence in memory of Captain Francis Cecil Paul, whose tragic death was recognized as an Afghanistan casualty.
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
First Reading of Commons Public Bills
A message was brought from the House of Commons with a Bill C-465, An Act respecting a National Hunting, Trapping and Fishing Heritage Day, to which it desires the concurrence of the Senate.
The bill was read the first time.
The Honourable Senator Comeau moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Rivard, that the bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading two days hence.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Tabling of Reports from Inter-Parliamentary Delegations
The Honourable Senator Downe tabled the following:
Report of the Canadian Delegation of the Canada-Europe Parliamentary Association respecting its participation at the Ninth Conference of Parliamentarians of the Arctic Region, held in Brussels, Belgium, from September 13 to 15, 2010. —Sessional Paper No. 3/40-835.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
SPEAKER'S RULING
Yesterday, during debate on the sixth report of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce, a point of order was raised as to whether the report, which recommends that the Senate not further consider Bill S-216, was properly before the Senate. This concern arose from the fact that the committee had not gone through the bill clause-by-clause, a usual requirement under rule 96(7.1). That rule states that "[e]xcept with leave of its members present, a committee cannot dispense with clause-by-clause consideration of a bill". Against this requirement, there is rule 100, which states, in part, that "[w]hen a committee to which a bill has been referred considers that the bill should not be proceeded with further in the Senate, it shall so report to the Senate, stating its reasons".
There are relatively few instances in which Senate committees have used the process allowed under rule 100. Research has identified eight cases since 1975, of which the 1998 example of Bill C-220 is the most recent. According to the available records, committees have always made the decision to report against a bill without starting clause-by- clause study. That is to say, the basic issue of whether a committee considers that a bill should be proceeded with is decided, either explicitly or, most often, implicitly, before clause-by-clause. If the committee decides to make a recommendation under rule 100, it does not ever reach the clause-by-clause stage.
This helps to understand how rule 96(7.1), which was added to the Rules of the Senate in 2005, is to be used. This rule only applies if the committee actually gets to the stage of considering a bill clause-by-clause. If that point is not reached, because a committee decides to recommend against the bill pursuant to rule 100, the requirement of rule 96(7.1) does not come into play. To oblige that a committee go through a bill clause-by-clause when it has already decided to report against the bill would be contradictory and inconsistent.
A review of the blues of the meeting of the Banking Committee on November 25, indicates that, although the term "dispense with clause-by-clause" was used at one point, this was quickly corrected to "not proceed with clause-by- clause". A motion to that effect was put to a recorded vote and carried. A report was then proposed, with a recommendation that the Senate not continue consideration of the bill. This report was adopted on another recorded vote. The proceedings, except for the passing reference to dispensing with clause-by-clause, which was corrected, were thus in order. Not proceeding with clause-by-clause when the committee is recommending against a bill is, as already noted, proper practice.
Honourable senators, as a ruling of September 16, 2009, noted, "[w]hile committees are often said to be 'masters of their own proceedings,' this is only true insofar as they comply with the Rules of the Senate." This is in keeping with rule 96(7), which prohibits committees from adopting inconsistent special procedures or practices without the Senate's approval, and also reflects points to be found at pages 1047-1048 of the second edition of House of Commons Procedure and Practice.
This said, the practice in our committees has been that they are permitted considerable freedom in governing their proceedings. When there are concerns about the propriety of proceedings in committee, they should be raised at that time and in that venue, when corrective action can be more easily taken.
The ruling is that the sixth report is properly before the Senate, and debate can continue.
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Orders No. 1 to 5 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Inquiries
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Reports of Committees
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
° ° °
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Hervieux-Payette, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Tardif, for the second reading of Bill S-204, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (protection of children).
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Carstairs, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fairbairn, P.C., that further
debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
° ° °
Orders No. 3 to 9 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
° ° °
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Hervieux-Payette, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Tardif, for the second reading of Bill S-205, An Act to provide the means to rationalize the governance of Canadian businesses during the period of national emergency resulting from the global financial crisis that is undermining Canada's economic stability.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Comeau, for the Honourable Senator Gerstein, moved, seconded by the Honourable
Senator Di Nino, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
° ° °
Second reading of Bill S-225, An Act respecting the reorganization and privatization of Atomic Energy of Canada Limited.
The Honourable Senator Hervieux-Payette, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Carstairs, P.C., that the bill be read the second time.
Debate.
At 4 p.m., pursuant to the order adopted by the Senate on April 15, 2010, the Senate adjourned until 1:30 p.m. tomorrow.
Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry
The Honourable Senator Callbeck replaced the Honourable Senator Fairbairn, P.C. (November 30, 2010).
Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce
The Honourable Senator Neufeld replaced the Honourable Senator Gerstein (December 1, 2010).
The Honourable Senator Plett replaced the Honourable Senator Ataullahjan (December 1, 2010).
The Honourable Senator Gerstein replaced the Honourable Senator Plett (December 1, 2010).
The Honourable Senator Oliver replaced the Honourable Senator Dickson (December 1, 2010).
Standing Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade
The Honourable Senator Stratton replaced the Honourable Senator Johnson (December 1, 2010).
Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs
The Honourable Senator Lang replaced the Honourable Senator Patterson (December 1, 2010).
The Honourable Senator Angus replaced the Honourable Senator Marshall (December 1, 2010).
Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament
The Honourable Senator Duffy replaced the Honourable Senator Mockler (November 30, 2010).
Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology
The Honourable Senator Day replaced the Honourable Senator Dyck (November 30, 2010).